Introduction

Jehovah’s WItnesses along with one or two other sects particular the Mormons represent the furthest one can get from Christian teaching while still holding to an essentially Biblical text. The fact that the interpretation dependent upon translating the Greek text differently from mainstream scholarship gives an idea of how far from mainstream it is.

What do they Believe about Heaven?

If there is one thing you want to understand about the JW worldview, then it is this: Eventually, God will administer justice upon the Earth mediated through 144000 judges and rulers, whereby people will finally live in peace. That is it, really. Those on Earth do not go up to Heaven anymore than those in Heaven come down to Earth. We can infer that this works exactly like an earthly kingdom with the rulers are the ruled. All this is of course taken from a literal and rather myopic interpretation of the familiar passages like Revelations chapter 7. What this means is that JW is effectively a religion of eternal separation from God. In contrast, the Christian point of view is that Heaven is a place of perfection in eternal union with God. I will, for the sake of this article, take it for granted that the reader is aware of this Christian view, but if that is not the case, the difference will not be apparent, and the reader might not agree with any of my conclusions of this section. It might be noted that such a view is also not very different from the Islamic view, but again, that is too much to discuss here. But again, a Muslim might not find this discussion very revealing for that same reason. I cannot discuss mainstream Christian views here, that lying outside the scope of this article. For now I will raise two issues that would arise from a Christian perspective with regards to such a religion which are:

1. Does the fact that people need to be perpetually “ruled and judged” imply that sin will persist? Crime and Punishment, war and peace?
2. Do people have the possibility of attaining holiness, that point at which they do not need to be ruled or judged? What then?

The Translation of the JW Bible

Who Were the translators? The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society has failed both the public and its own followers at this most crucial point, as they refuse to give the names and credentials of the translators of The New World Translation. The Watchtower’s Bible subject index handbook, Reasoning from the Scripture, states: “When presenting as a gift the publishing rights to their translation, the New World Bible Translation Committee requested that its members remain anonymous. The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania has honored their request” (pg. 277).

The reason cited is because the “translators were not seeking prominence for themselves.” However, the fact is that the men who comprised this committee had no adequate schooling or background to function as skilled critical Bible translators.

The translation committee was headed by (then vice -president of the Jehovah’s Witnesses), Frederick W.Franz. Other members included Nathan H. Knorr (then president of the Jehovah’s Witnesses), Albert D. Schroeder, Ceorge D. Gangas and Milton Henschel.

The information as to the identity of the translation committee was made known by former Jehovah’s Witness William Cetnar. (See further, We Left lehovah’s Witnesses, A Non-Profit Organization; Edmond C. Gruss.) Cetnar was able to supply this information as he worked at the International Headquarters of Jehovah’s Witnesses during the time the translation was being prepared.

In addition, former member of the Watchtower’s Governing Body, Raymond V. Franz, in his book, Crisis of Conscience, lists the translators’ names as Franz, Knorr, Schroeder and Cangas. His list omits Henschel. Franz further acknowledges his uncle Frederick Franz as the “principal translator of the Society’s New World Translation” (Crisis, pg. 50).

Yet, Frederick Franz’s translation ability is open to serious question.

During a court trial held in Scotland in 1954 (during the same period that the New World Translation was being made) Franz was asked if he had made himself familiar with Hebrew. His reply was “Yes.” He also acknowledged under oath that he could read and follow the Bible in Hebrew, Greek, Latin, Spanish, Portuguese, German and French. The following day, during the same court trial, his linguistic abilities were put to the test.

He was asked to translate Genesis 2:4 into Hebrew. He failed the test as he was unable to do so. In fact he did not even try, but rather stated “No, I wouldn’t attempt to do that.” (See, Court of Session, Scotland – Douglas Walsh vs. The Right Honourable James Latham Clyde – November 1954.)

http://www.ukapologetics.net/newworld.html

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/nwt-translators-did-not-know-biblical-hebrew-or-greek.8010766/

Col 1: the Problem with the addition of the word “other”.

The Joy of Heaven in the Absence of God

The “Joy of invention”?

I heard a JW once say this to me so I wrote this in reply, although I am unaware of whether thsi is a mainstream view. In such a place every pleasure must be available thus there would be no requirement to invent or create, because the need to create is born of the desire to add more pleasure to that already existing, which would mean that what exists is imperfect. The other motivation for creation is to increase creature comfort. This also implies that the current status was nto perfectly confortable. Similarly were the pleasure of creating also one of the pleasures provided as entertainment, then it is impossible that invention be infinite. If it were then it would mean that man would have to wait forever to experience perfection ie he would never experience it. If it were not then there would eb nothing left to create. Same with the invention of creature conforts. UNderlyign all this is the monumental assumption that creativity is not spawned in a capitaoistic society. Capitalistic society provides the necessary drive for invention, because intellect receives it due honor, status and dignity in such a society. If not for this then what sould be the motivation for creative drive? Betterment of humanity and alleviation of suffering? But this is Paradise! Pure entertainment and leisure? The best creation is undertaken in extenuating circumstances and the adage “necessity if the mother of invention”. IN summary, it is hard to see the creative instinct engendered in Paradise.

The Problem of a Heaven with Sensual Pleasures

What would an infinity of purely sensual pleasures look like? Can a man endure an infinity of sex (let us assume with the same woman), or even free sex without strings or emotional attachment (since its Paradise), an infinity of fine dining, an infinity of music. The problem is the same thing. Everybody’s stories end here. In the absence of hopes, aspirations, creativity, family, success and failure, glory and agony, and the cycle of life, death, and new life that Is engendered within a family, there is no “life story”. Put it like this: What will be the life story of a person in Paradise? Either that or the sex drive is turned up in both partners and the familial drives are turned off. Therefore emotions of love and bonding will have to be switched off to facilitate umbridled sexual pursuit. This is the only way in which multiple partners can be used- Unbridled sex requires that love be killed. (So that the pain of separations does not being about feelings of anger, jealousy, depression etc., which would imply a robotic roving existence from one sensory stimulus to the next. The problem then is that that happiness is killed too, along with love. Even if god has nor switched off the love in you, you will kill it through the scars of multiple sexual relationships and breakups taken to infinity. It doesn’t take that long either, see what happens to porn stars? A porn star can probably do porn forever, but they certainly cannot do it lovingly.

What will a day in the life of a person in the earthly Paradise be like. Say you wake up there one day. What next? Let’s say he 1. has sex with all he wants to, then 2. he eats and drinks all he wants to, then he 3. plays all the sport he wants to. and finally he 4. Listens to all the music and sees all the theatre he wants to..What then? Go to 1. and start over. The truth is that sexual life is meaningless and unsatisfactory without family life. What if one wanted to have sex with a woman but she didn’t want to have sex with that person, would there be an application or queueing or auditioning process? There is no end to the problems with a sexual heaven and the inssue of consent is only one of them- does “god” fix everyone so that they always consent to sex with everyone else? Then we’re back to a robotic existence. Women are just not as sexually driven as men anyway. How is that dealth with? Or Is the sex drive abolished completely perhaps? Then we are back to “invention” and “discovery”?

Or perhaps we can investigate teh possibility of only one partner. So you have an eternity with one sexual partner, perhaps an eternal baby . Nothing to pray for because you’re not going to have a baby, and nothing to hope for because you’re already in “heaven”, and God isn’t there. Essentially you have no story because I have just told you the whole story. “The end”, I think. This is the problem of “eternal boredom2, which we shall talk about next. One might examine the relationship with this one person and try to determine what it might be like. You don’t have a God, so do you idolise that person? Or do you objectify them? Do you love them? Love them for what, that person too is your pleasure and that person is your Paradise. What difference does it make if you love them or not, as long as you are getting what you want. Really, that persons is your only joy, because you have nothing but them to depend upon for companionship for eternity. It is hard to se how this is not an idolatory. What is love without God anyway? We love all things in Him and through Him and for Him. What is love without Him?

Christian Love is when you share or want to share your hopes desires and aspirations for union with God with someone else. The atheist form of “love” is sharing worldly hopes, desires and aspirations. You see this in most Hollywood movies. The JW Pleasure Dome form is sharing your orgasms and food with someone, with no hopes or aspirations. You cant even kiss someone who one does not love. Why do you think prostitutes do not let you kiss them, and rarely will you see porn stars kissing and most often just at the beginning of the shot to make it look real.

What is the place of sex?

Is sex not the greatest pleasure, temptation and corrupter for a human being? And is not sex also the act and expression of love, which is the pinnacle of intimacy. There is no greater corrupter of love of a woman than the love of sex with a woman. When a sinner approaches a man, he commits the sins of greed, pride and anger. When he approaches a woman, he commits all of these above with the addition of lust. Thus the love of sex in itself is the collection and assimilation of all the sins in one place. Should sex then not be protected by exclusivity, so that it cannot be corrupted by desire, in a marriage that is fully committed, and in the loving act of self-giving that is sex in which and into which children can be born. Such a child then is the result of perfect love, and that child will then be loved perfectly, rather than that love being a subset of the selfish reasons for which the mother was loved. Even apart from this, a polygamous marriage will entail competitiveness rather than love, beginning with wives competing with for the husband’s bed so that they might bear children, to competition between children for the paternal favour.

God establishes man with the capacity and the circumstances that are conducive to his spiritual growth. Thus it is in the family that a child experiences love, when he is given the experiences of the undivided and unconditional love of his parents, so also it is in a committed relationship with his spouse that a man learns about the unconditional and undivided love that he is called to give, which is his highest spiritual calling.

Eternal Boredom

Boredom is the cessation of desire. Any pleasure stretched to infinity becomes boring. Worldly pleasures are finite, and therefore so also is the desire for them finite. The end of the desire represents the beginning of boredom. In infinity, that end will certainly arrive, no matter what the pleasure. Worldly pleasure and infinity are really inimical to each other and were never made for each other. In infinity, only God can satisfy. In satisfying God is not consumed, and we in return in being satisfied, are not robbed of our desire for Him. Even though our joy is complete, yet we have not experienced all the Joy that is in God. Our amazement is complete, yet at no point have we completely comprehended the Source of our wonder.

Effective Polytheism in JW

JWs are forced to admit polytheism for the following reasons: In order to get around John 1:1 which they translate “…and the word was a God”. They then state that although Jesus is a god, but not the Almighty God. Further they accept that there is sufficient biblical evidence that  Jesus is the Son of God, yet they state that the Son of God is not God, even though the word “God” is in His very title. This is to say that “son of horse” is not a horse but a sheep! The offspring can never be lesser in dignity than the parent. Human begets human and never subhuman. A human child is never subhuman. Only a psychopath views another human being as having a lower dignity than himself and as unfit to live. In the case of God, it is either impossible that God have a Son, but should He have one, then that Son must necessarily be equal to Him, and therefore also God. In any case, the “Son of God” title taken by itself, or in conjunction with the “every knee shall bow” from Philippians necessitate a polytheistic view,

This of course is a clear violation of the Ten Commandments: “Thou shalt have no other gods before Me” Exodus 20:2.

The Sacrifice of Jesus makes acceptable

A creature cannot make another creature acceptable. Because acceptability, which is perfection can only come from God. God only accepts that which is made perfect, or else there would be no need of such a great sacrifice if the objective was imperfection. “The spirits of the just made perfect…” (Heb 12:23). “Be you perfect…” Matt 5:48, 1 Peter 1:16, Lev 20:26

Only God can make perfect. Since only that which is perfection can bring perfection. Jesus is God. If not, He could not make perfect (we could discuss that aspect separately). That which is imperfect cannot grant perfection.

This call the Eternity is the call to Holiness. It si holiness that is infinite, and transformation into holiness is precisely the path that is given to the perishable seed as the means of this union. And because the perishable seed cannot achieve this result in and of itself by definition, for the perishable cannot perform an infinite task, so the Infinite himself, must, taking the form of the perishable, the reverse task that seems just as impossible, but for the transcendent and incomprehensible infinity of power of that Being, then raise it to that holiness. And this is Sacrifice.

The Effective Loss of Spirituality

You are right. Spirituality is based on love. We love God, God loves us: “It is of the nature of love to unite”. Love has a single overriding desire: to unite with the beloved. Love if a desire, then the end of that desire is the beloved, by definition. This desire is the exact opposite of separation. Union brings joy, separation brings pain. Even sacrifice is for a single purpose: union. A married couple makes sacrifices so that the couple can stay together. Jesus sacrifices, so that we can on day be together. The ransom was paid to gain us, not to lose us.

THe JW I was speaking to tried to counter by asserting “Physical separation does not separate us physically, emotionally and mentally from God.” Using those same four words after the above analysis, I will quote you back “Physical separation causes emotional pain (pain of separation), pain leads to mental illness, and the end of spirituality, or any possibility of it.”

The Problem with Infinity

One cannot mess about with infinity. The finite can only exist in infinity, if itself becomes infinite. Pain which now seems transient and unimportant, in infinity will be infinite too. In infinity joy is not derived from the indefinite continuation of finite joys. It is derived from access to the source of infinite joy, which is God himself.

One of the cardinal errors of your theology is to assume that infinity is indefinite finitude. Infinity looks and feels nothing like you’ve ever seen or heard, or can comprehend. You know the verse, “However, as it is written: “What no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and what no human mind has conceived” — the things God has prepared for those who love him”. 1 Cor 2:9. I can promise you God is not talking about roast beef and tiramisu.

Everything that there is, is perishability and infinity, and there is nothing else, nor can there be. It is like existence and non-existence, north pole and south pole, there is no middle term, and in logic it is the second law, the absent middle term. A thing cannot both not be self-subsisting, and not non-self-subsisting, just like it cannot both be not existing, and not non-existing, or a pole of a magnet cannot both not be north pole nor south pole, it has to be one of them, opposites cannot both be false at the same time and place. The infinite is that by which what is perishable came to be, and the perishable is, only for the reason that Infinity causes it to be, and maintains it in existence.

What is self-subsisting is not in space and time, for space and time are properties of the physical universe, and are therefore share the properties of that universe one of which is perishability having a dependent existence, that does not contain within itself the principle of its own existence. I have explained this concept in the third essay, the esse ipsum subsistence.

Now, the next concept to grasp that follows from the first is that self-subsistence is a term cognate with eternality, or immortality, while that which is perishable and temporal has a dependent existence, and depends precisely upon the Immortal self-subsistent.

Now we can apply this to the concept of human destiny and salvation and whatever hopes of immortality that human beings might hold. First appreciate that it is impossible logically speaking from human reason for that which is perishable to become imperishable, and it is easier to see the improbability of this when one considers whether that which is immortal can become mortal, which simply seems like a contradictory statement. Were it to be possible then, the means would likely be as alien to human reasoning as the end that is proposed, immortalisation.

This simply cannot consist in the addition of some sort of preservative from the outside, the external application of some substance that halts the ageing process. Even one who has received the unlikely fortune of discovering the philosopher’s Stone or drunk from the Fountain of Youth, would still be a mortal, for though they would not age, is yet capable of suffering all that a mortal suffers, physically and mentally, just without dying. For example were that person to be locked up in a dungeon or buried under the ground, they would simply suffer forever forgotten in that state. In the unlikely event that medicine found a way to halt the ageing process, man would still be susceptible to every form of death, violent and non-violent (including starvation, thirst, exposure) except those that belong to the ageing process.

It is impossible that perishable be eternal indestructible spirit, save that it participates in the existence that is eternal, as somehow being part of that eternal Being. This is why immortality is only through “union”, and precisely through a union with the Immortal Being. This does not mean union in an “accidental” manner, that is not as a union through a mechanism of external adhesion onto the Inmortal, for it would yet fall outside that Immortal, and thus outside immortality. From what we have said before, we can see that there is no immortality apart from the immortal. It must be united substantially to the Immortal, so that when all has perished it will have not, for it shares in that “Life”. “I am the Life” “Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you shall not have life within you”. “the flesh counts for nothing”, “I am the bread of life”.

Thus we can see that union with God is necessitated from a human logical standpoint, from a simple examination fo the second law of logic once we have understood ontology, the ipsum esse subsistence. What is not immortal is mortal, and the only escape from mortality is to cease to exist in that realm altogether, and to exist within the immortal, which is God. “For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will find it.” Matthew 16:25, “What is sown perishable is raised imperishable”. St Paul himself, in an early exposition of this principle conveys how the imperishable flesh has nothing in common with the perishable flesh, there has occurred in it a “substantial” change.

Biblical Misinterpretation leading to the Faulty Eschatology

The 144000 that rule Paradise

As we saw before there is an absurd Paradise that requires a judicial system. Here we look at where it originates.

The connection of this number to the number of saved JW is extremely tenuous.

1. First of all it is clearly said that this number is arrived at by taking 5000 each from each tribe of Israel! (12×500=144000).  Now consider what might be the reason that exactly 5000 persons qualify for salvation from each tribe of Israel out of all possible persons throughout history.
2. Moroever they are all “men who have not defiled themselves with women. So where are the women representatives?
3. In Revelations 7, the same chapter about the 144000, it also says about the “great multitude”,“For this reason they are before the throne of God,
   and worship him day and night within his temple,” Rev 7:15 So aren’t they all in Heaven?
4. Again consider that in the ancient languages, there was no word for any number greater than 1000. The biggest number I can think of in the Bible is the number at the census of King David which is about five hundred thousand. But apart from this when there is an attempt to convey a great multitude as in the angels of heaven, the words used are always thousands upon thousands, ten thousands upon ten thousands… All this points to the number 144000 being symbolic.

The Bible does not support Christians being subject to rulers in Heaven

The Bible has no indication that Christians are to be the earthly subjects to heavenly kings, also of human derivation.

1. All the verses alluding to “service” of God, refer to worship of Him (“serve him in his Temple”, etc)
2. All references to Human “kings” refer to not to rulers with subjects, as below:

The question I was asked is how can a king rule if there is nothing to rule over, referencing Revelations 5:9,10

It is error to presume the sameness (univocation) of earthly and heavenly kingship, rather than analogical similarity.

An earthly king:

1. His power is to rule unopposed
2. His function is to rule the “unruly”.
3. His pleasure is in power and riches
4. His good is in benevolence toward the righteous, his evil is tyranny
5. His pain is his insecurity and a phenomenon called the “loneliness at the top”

A heavenly king:

1. His power is to worship unopposed “that we may worship in holiness and justice…in his presence”
2. His function is worship. Rev 4:8,  Rev 7:15, Isaiah 6:3
3. His pleasure is beatitude, “Blessed are…they will see God”.
4. His good is God, there is no evil “in him there is no darkness”
5. There is no pain. (Rev 21:4)

Thus analogically the heavenly king has all the attributes prefigured in the earthly king, brought to fulfilment. This fulfilment is the definitive removal of evil. 1 Cor 15:57 “But thank God! He gives us victory over sin and death through our Lord Jesus “

The reason there are no subjects to “rule over” is obvious. All the good subjects are also kings “do not worry, my little children, It has pleased the Father to give each of you a kingdom”. All the evil subjects are in Hell. Justice is definitive, that’s why there is Judgement Day. There is no judgement after that, and therefore no need for judiciary.

I’m sorry how does such a relation work where you are both a “friend” and a “subject”?

But please explain to me how one can both serve a king and be his friend at the same time? That is nonsense, the two terms are opposites.

If you disagree, then can I please be your king and your friend, Arjun?

“And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.”

Eph 6:9 We are all servants. There is only one service, it is worship. We will be kings, but there is only one Master and Lord above all to whom service is due. And it’s not us.

Eph 4:6 “one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.”

Cor 15:24-28 “Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.”

“…When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.”

There is no “Two-tier Salvation” notion in the Bible

The most obvious problem perhaps is your “two-level salvation”. A different plan for the 144000 and a different one for the great crowd.

I don’t find that anywhere in the Bible that this is said, “I will save in two different ways”. This eternal separation goes against all the verses about unity in the New Testament:

That they be one as we are one…That they may be in us as I am in you…I have gone to prepare a place for you…I will not leave you orphans…Partakers in the Divine nature…I be come to you and I will be with you…Day by day…we are being transformed into his image…Christ is the head of the Church which is his body…He will present us as a bride spotless and without wrinkle…Blessed are those who are called to the Marriage Supper of the Lamb…No one will snatch them out of my hand…

Then on top of that, Jesus sacrifice obtains two types of Salvation: business class and second class. How come? It’s the same sacrifice.

Again it makes no sense of Jesus’ Sacrifice. First of all, God has a sort of angel for a son. Where did this son come from? Secondly God sent that poor thing to die. How does an angel dying make anything better?

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

1 Corinthians 12:12-14 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit. 14 For the body does not consist of one member but of many.

And with that, the background is ready to ask you about scripture.

What scripture can you show me to prove:
1. Man can find happiness when separated from God?
2. God’s intention is separation from man.

God dwells with his people in Heaven

This is the ultimate reality, that Heaven is where God is, and if one does not want to call it Heaven, then it matters little, because God is still God.

Isaiah 65:17-19, Apocalypse 21:1-2,

¹⁷ For I am about to create new heavens and a new earth; the former things shall not be remembered or come to mind. ¹⁸ But be glad and rejoice for ever in what I am creating; for I am about to create Jerusalem as a joy, and its people as a delight. ¹⁹ I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and delight in my people; no more shall the sound of weeping be heard in it, or the cry of distress.

Apocalypse 21 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. ²And I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. ³And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, ‘See, the home of God is among mortals. He will dwell with them;
they will be his peoples, and God himself will be with them

Exodus 25:8 And they are to make a sanctuary for Me, so that I may dwell among them.

Exodus 29:45 Then I will dwell among the Israelites and be their God.

Leviticus 26:12 I will walk among you and be your God, and you will be My people.

Jeremiah 31:1 “At that time,” declares the LORD, “I will be the God of all the families of Israel, and they will be My people.”

Ezekiel 37:27 My dwelling place will be with them; I will be their God, and they will be My people

Rev 21:2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

Psalm 27:4 “One thing I ask from the LORD, this only do I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze on the beauty of the LORD and to seek him in his temple.”

What were the covenants made to the Israelites?

Ezekiel 37:27 “My dwelling place will be with them; I will be their God, and they will be my people.”

Lev 26:11 “I will put my dwelling place among you, and I will not abhor you.”

1 Cor 13:12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

My soul yearns, even faints, for the courts of the LORD; my heart and my flesh cry out for the living God. Psalm 84:2

Psalm 42:2 My soul thirsts for God, for the living God. When can I go and meet with God?

Isaiah 26:9 My soul yearns for you in the night; in the morning my spirit longs for you

Exodus 29:45“I will dwell among the sons of Israel and will be their God.

Exodus 29:46 “They shall know that I am the LORD their God who brought them out of the land of Egypt, that I might dwell among them; I am the LORD their God.

Leviticus 26:11 ‘Moreover, I will make My dwelling among you, and My soul will not reject you.

Numbers 35:34 ‘You shall not defile the land in which you live, in the midst of which I dwell; for I the LORD am dwelling in the midst of the sons of Israel.'”

1 Kings 6:13“I will dwell among the sons of Israel, and will not forsake My people Israel.”

Ezekiel 37:27 My dwelling place also will be with them; and I will be their God, and they will be My people.

Ezekiel 43:7 He said to me, “Son of man, this is the place of My throne and the place of the soles of My feet, where I will dwell among the sons of Israel forever And the house of Israel will not again defile My holy name, neither they nor their kings, by their harlotry and by the corpses of their kings when they die,

Ezekiel 43:9 “Now let them put away their harlotry and the corpses of their kings far from Me; and I will dwell among them forever.

Zechariah 2:10 “Sing for joy and be glad, O daughter of Zion; for behold I am coming and I will dwell in your midst,” declares the LORD.

Numbers 5:3 “You shall send away both male and female; you shall send them outside the camp so that they will not defile their camp where I dwell in their midst.”

Isaiah 57:15 For thus says the high and exalted One Who lives forever, whose name is Holy, “I dwell on a high and holy place, And also with the contrite and lowly of spirit In order to revive the spirit of the lowly And to revive the heart of the contrite.

Revelation 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them,

John 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Zechariah 2:11“Many nations will join themselves to the LORD in that day and will become My people Then I will dwell in your midst, and you will know that the LORD of hosts has sent Me to you.

Revelation 21:1–5 “Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. ²And I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. ³And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “See, the home of God is among mortals. He will dwell with them as their God; they will be his peoples, and God himself will be with them; ⁴he will wipe every tear from their eyes. Death will be no more; mourning and crying and pain will be no more, for the first things have passed away.” ⁵And the one who was seated on the throne said, “See, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this, for these words are trustworthy and true.”

John 14:23 “Jesus replied, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make Our home with him.

Rev 22 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.’

14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they will have the right to the tree of life and may enter the city by the gates. 15Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and fornicators and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practises falsehood.

…The Spirit and the bride say, ‘Come.’
And let everyone who hears say, ‘Come.’

Physical Universe will be Destroyed

2 Peter 3 “…in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and indulging their own lusts ⁴and saying, ‘Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since our ancestors died,^* all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation!’ ⁵They deliberately ignore this fact, that by the word of God heavens existed long ago and an earth was formed out of water and by means of water, ⁶through which the world of that time was deluged with water and perished. ⁷But by the same word the present heavens and earth have been reserved for fire, being kept until the day of judgement and destruction of the godless…
10…But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and everything that is done on it will be disclosed.11Since all these things are to be dissolved in this way,…”

Mark 13:24-26 ²⁴ But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, ²⁵ And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.²⁶ And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Rev 6:12-17 ¹² And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; ¹³ And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. ¹⁴ And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places…¹⁷ For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

I have heard a JW argue that since the analogy given is from the Nohaic flood, we must conclude that the final destruction will be a similar destruction that only involves the people and not the complete destruction of the earth and physical Universe itself.

The reply is that this is a misunderstanding of the operation that is called analogy. If one wants to threaten someone with dire consequences by analogy one might perhaps take a watermelon, smash and say “this is what will happen to your head” (or the famous Godfather scene with the severed racehorse head). Few with try to argue “but wouldn’t you first have to turn my head into a watermelon/horse first, sir?” Most would get the gravity of the point. God does not have to destroy the physical Universe in order to issue an effective warning that he is about to destroy the physical Universe.

However the point is this: whatever you might or might not believe about the end times, one must lose sight of the crux of the matter: Christianity is not a matter of “where”, but “who”. Who will you be with in the final analysis. If God is the “who” that you end up with, the “Where” ceases to matter.

I am getting a distinct feeling that JW does not have a mature conception of who God is, they expend too much time and energy in these end-times analysis. You’ve given up the hope of ever being with God: Do you realise just what it is you’re giving up, and at what cost? If not so let me talk to you about God.

In the end there will be only two places. The new heavens, new earth, new Jerusalem…all these refer to Heaven. The old heavens and earth are the physical Universe, they will be no more
Hades, Lake of Sulphur… these refer to Hell. Heaven and Hell, that’s it. God will be all in all 1 Cor 15:28

What is not in God, is Hell.

The Soul

A Man’s Identity

This is the problem with the “recreation of the soul”. The identity of a man is his mind which is made up of memories, intellect, and will. These are the thinking faculties. What makes him a personality (or a person) is the use of these faculties along the path of virtue or vice. Constant use of the faculties for the good, leads to the good being performed in the manner of a habit and therefore to virtue, where the will is good, without resort to the memory or to the intellect. God enables this journey along the path of virtue through his direct action in the soul of man. That is the first component of identity. All this journey was the product of you being the part of a particular set of circumstances and a particular set of human and other interactions in a particular part of time. One’s identity is inseparable from those experiences and is in every sense comprised by them.

In fact this in discussions over the issue of defining the human “identity”. Faced with the fact that literally every molecule in our bodies will be replaced several times over during the period of our lifetimes, something that was not fully understood only a century or so ago. In the light of this, the only means we have left of being able to define the soul at all, is in term of the continuity of experience, since this is the only aspect about us which truly “continues” and can in some sense be said to have permanence, which is what we are seeking when we attempt to define identity, that is, the aspect of the human being which is permanent is the what we could call the “recipient of experiences”, what we may also refer to as the “subject” or at the risk of sounding tautological, the “self”. Apart from that perhaps there is a biological permanence to our particular genetic code and also a certain geographical permanence, in that the identity is always located to a certain group of multiplying if not mobile group of cells.

Can identity be duplicated?

The only way of bringing that memory back is to go back in time. “Re-creation” of these in a “programmed clone” as it were, (even were it possible, which I deny and is contrary to the nature of God as I state below) is unfaithful to the origin of the virtues and the memories, and therefore to the identity. Put differently, if God were to create you again, He would use the same process: You would be born as a baby and live and grow into an adult, with the same persons and the same experiences. That is your true creation.

IF God creates something new out of you, that is Resurrection. If He creates something out of nothing, that’s Creation. That’s not you. The perfect copy of you would not be ou, it would be an individual that thought it was you, wlthough they were not. And you would never know that person. That would be to lie and that’s why God cannot do it.

The proposed “recreation” is a clone programming which is impersonal and does not recreate our identity. Therefore it is defective and God cannot do it. The only way to recreate identity is to turn back the clock to before you died. And God does not do that either.

Should a man be created fully grown as an adult, mid-life with fully formed virtues, first of all this goes against the nature of creation for God creates human beings that are free to freely choose him. However the “mid-formed” man will have pre-made virtues that are not gained. This is inimical to the notion of virtue.

I see you are proposing an “old guy” that dies, and a “new guy” that is created. What exactly is the connection between the two?

 That  new creation is not one in freedom. Secondly memories are experiences. The new soul will have memories of what it did not experience. These memories will be untruths. But God does not lie. The “new guy” will have memories that are fake, because he was not there, and virtues that are fake because they were not cultivated from those fake experiences. It is impossible that God will do this.

Just becase you are a pre-programmed clone that’s been pre-programmed with data from God’s database, doesn’t mean that its really you, does it? How will you know that you’ve been resurrected if you don’t exist.

What is the identity of a person. Is consciousness downloadable? If you really believe that consciousness is no more than a dataset, then you are opening yourself up to a whole new load pf problems. Think: “determinism”.

“But God given us a brain that makes millions of connections a second so we can perceive world around us, feel emotions, build characteristics, personalities, behaviours etc. Do you not think God could recreate brain exactly as it was with all those connections that were made, including our experiences and effects they had upon us? That the God who knows each of the billions of stars in universe could not remember every detail about us?” He can not”, I replied, “Because the thing ‘re-created’ did not have those experiences”.

Why do JW’s believe in the annihilation of the Soul?

Annihilatoinism is a useful construct where accountability is not desired, or where the theology does not provide for true accountability. True accountability can only be fully be explicated with some form of Purgatrial doctrine, in fact that is its purpose, that those that are not so holy as to have given ful account of themselves prior to their deaths, might be enabled to do so after it. This “enabling” is purgatorial. Christian denominations which believe that perfection is already achieved at the time of Baptism have no room or requirement for Purgatory or post-mortem purgation, since that is already achieved. Islam has no such provision either. So also with JW. Sould annihilation is one way of smoothing over the thrological fall-out of the lack of an accountability doctrine- the accounts are, of course, annihilated with the soul. What is recreated for Heaven is a “full-reset”, as you would do with your laptop or tablet or phone before you sell it on. The problems are not hard to see- first, the thing that is recreated is not the same as the thing that is annihilated. It’s a new thing with the old memories. With the advent of AI, this difficulty is becoming in recent times increasingly easy to comprehend. What if the entire consciousness of a person is downloaded into a computer that is powerful enough to become sentient with that dataset. Is that computer the same person, even though it thought that it was? Or perhaps it would not even think that it was since it knew that it was a computer. Or what if both existed simultaneously, then which is the person? So what if God were to re-create without annihilating, which would be the authentic individual? Obviously the one, or the consciousness that had genuinely endured the set of life-experiences within its memory. Memories are not experiences, your computer did not go to Paris with your wife because it has the video of the trip. New tv shows like Black Mirror on Netflix and Avatar: Way of the Water and numerous others like the Avengers series on Marvel have explored these themes. In the present scenario it is impossible to hold to the continuation of ideninty in an AI zombie.