I watched Trent’s video when it came out. I don’ think its right to give carte blanche to MMA. The priest that ciriticized might have made some arguments that were off target, but Trent goes to the other other extreme, and it seems his own love for martial arts is biasing him here.

Probably most pertinently, the only caution that he applies is something like “if you find that you enjoy the gore/bloodlust, then don’t watch it” implying presumably that we should be only watching it for the artform. None of the spiritual greats would have given such advice, the key to increasing in virtue is do not put yourself in a situation where the possibility of temptation could even arise. An attitude of “I’m spiritually mature enough, I will not be corrupted” is literally never given. It would be like saying “you can watch porn as long as you don’t get aroused, and it only to admire the beauty of creation etc. etc.” (sorry).

They key here is this: Every sport requires a killer instinct to win. However a MMA is a sport which is not just “killer instinct” as a metaphor, you’re really hitting a person for maximal damage. It is essentially an activity where mercy has no place and one would question how this could be enriching for the soul.

I would ask the others to reflect upon what age they would think it appropriate for their children to watch MMA? Honestly, I think it would be terrifying. I watched it in my 40s, as a mature (hopefully) Christian, and even if the skill is admired, the element of discomfort is not absent at any point.

Certainly I’m a great believer in physical training, but I am not aware of an a priori argument that martial arts needs to be a part of this. The larger issue would be something like asking whether mandatory conscription is a good thing for the entire population (some would say that it is), or perhaps asking whether if there is no role of violence in a utopian society or need to self-defence, then would people suffer from some deprivation of proposed mental health benefits of martial training in such a society? You will always notice in the Oriental martial arts are ultimately meditative, and the attainment of mental mastery first and foremost. Violence for the sake of violence is never the focus. However this is not necessarily the best street-fighting skill.

Make no mistake, I have taken great joy in watching martial arts movies and Jackie Chan’s old and poorly produced moves have been some of my favourites (Snake in the Eagle’s/Monkey’s Shadow, Drunken Monk and all that).

I don’t know how accurate the contention that Muslims are doing well in MMA is (I do know that there are some champions like Turgamenov, Amir Ali and some champion converts like Muhammed Ali, Mike Tyson (?), Andrew Tate, and recently Royce Gracie, if the reports are true, and if this is the case, whether this really is a reason to be proud of, if it is really true that there is something about the religion that leads to this MMA/pugilist excellence.

If the contention really is that MMA-type fighting creates discipline then the question would be whether there might not be healthier ways to inculcate similar physical discipline like team sports or simply a strict exercise routine. Fighting, much like personal is not a team sport so mental health benefits of team sports are not gained therein. Does MMA type fighting improve one’s own self-esteem?

I would certainly dispute that the roots of low self-esteem are merely to do with lack of martial arts training, so any perceived increase in self-esteem is largely to do with the physical training involved rather than the conflict. Good physical conditioning is certainly linked better mental health, we know this.

In today’s society we do not necessarily get into physical fights, and except for in the more deprived areas, getting physically attacked does not have a high prior probability. Further in the scenario of facing physical confrontation most experts will tell you that de-escalation/escape strategies are probably most important. Being over-confident of one’s martial arts prowess might lead to the opposite attitude.

Further, if there are multiple assailants or if a weapon is drawn, once again, escape and knowing one’s limitations are a better option than bravado. I’ve heard an expert say that if a knife/sharp instrument is drawn then the best option is indeed to put as much distance between, rather than engage in hand-to-hand (while in the case of a gun, the opposite is true- get close).

I presume some of the others here are not familiar with MMA, let give a short intro (feel free to correct me, I’m hardly an expert): MMA is “anything goes” except blows to the back of the head. There are 5 rounds of 3 minutes each. If both are still standing at the end, then it’s a points decision. That is probably a less common outcome. For a fight to end early, either the other person is knocked out, or in a condition where they are not even able to defend leave alone attack (somewhat like boxing), or they “submit”.

“Submission” is where either the person is in too much pain, or perceives his limb is about to be broken or he is unable to breathe, he can then try to “tap” 3 times and the referee will rush in to separate the fighters. Because of this “submission moves” are hugely popular, the commonest of which are “choke holds” which are various means of strangulation basically, and body holds (there might be a more technical term) where a limb/spine is twisted to a point of breakage/potential structural damage.

I’ll probably rewatch Trent’s video to make sure I’ve not missed out anything important. I think its important to write something intelligent on the issue because (some) youngsters do get sucked in.

Oh, and poking the eyes is also not allowed, probably maybe also clawing with finger nails

I’ll also add that it’s probably to say that that martial arts prowess has lead to increased attitude of respect in these champions, and I’ve seen extremely poor displays of behaviour from, Turgamenov, Amir Ali, Muhammed Ali certainly was hardly a humble person, and less said about Mike Tyson and Andrew Tate the better.

That certainly does lead one to ask whether it is right to conclude from this that Islam provides some mental health benefits, or whether it is more accurate to say that the honing of mental skill is merely a superficial effect, while at a deeper level, it merely provides affirmation for man’s baser instincts and enables promotion of the same, and the reason that there are an increasing number of Muslims in the highest levels of these particular art forms is not the reflection on the inherent aggression and glorification of those baser instincts in the religion itself.

Lastly, and this is probably most important: physical conditioning and healthy eating promotes the best mental health and longevity outcomes. Martial arts on the other hand leads to early dementia, as we saw with Muhammad Ali himself. So one needs to take this very seriously into consideration before sending one’s kids for MMA/boxing training hoping for health benefits, one is more likely to disappointed in the long run.

To finish my note, I need to write a note about bravery. We must not be overly taken up by notions of martial arts fighters being “brave”. Sports by its very nature has controls and is a public event in which surely the main motivations are livelihood generation and glory. Glory is the central driving sentiment in Roman society for example, where citizens can achieve higher status by successful completions of war campaigns and so on. True bravery lies in facing real life situations which are uncontrolled and lonely with no witnesses, which is why they require more bravery than anything else. Personally my greatest respect has always been for the “unknown soldier” who dies out there in some unseen realm for our safety and security, fighting a war started by powers outside his control and not of his personal choosing or provocation, in putting their life on the line for their comrades rescuing the wounded in dangerous situations and so on. We can think of so many theatres of battle from modern times al the way down through history in every single war that has ever been fought. You can prepare for a sports fight, but nothing prepares you for the horror of war, and often also for the personal horror that can just be everyday life. Compared to that, braving blows to the body in a controlled situation with the expectation of monetary renumeration and social adulation ranks lower, possibly a lot lower if we were trying to quantify bravery.